Row 1 Mittleider organic garden

How long can I grow seedlings indoor?

If one plants tomato seedlings indoors under florescent lights to grow
twelve weeks before transplanting outside and the plants normally are
supposed to produce ripe fruit within 65-70 days, what happens to that
normal development? Are the plants stunted or adversely affected in
some way that hurts their production after they are transplanted
outdoors? Would it be better to limit the seedling period to eight
rather that twelve weeks? Thank you!

Dave & Group:

The days-to-harvest for tomatoes and other transplanted crops are given from the
date seedlings are transplanted into the garden, NOT from the date seeds are
planted in the nursery.

Depending on several factors, including amount of light and heat in the nursery,
and the temperatures IN THE GARDEN SOIL, tomatoes can be ready for transplanting
in the garden as early as 4 weeks or as late as 12 weeks after seeds are
planted.

Florescent lights are NOT ideal for growing seedlings, especially beyond the
first transplant.

Plants grown under florescent lights do not receive anything approaching actual
sunlight, and so will not grow as fast nor be as robust as those grown in
sunlight. And they must be "hardened off" or acclimated to actual sunlight and
outside conditions more carefully and slowly than if grown in a greenhouse that
more nearly replicates garden conditions.

I recommend anyone using Grow-Lights to take plants into the direct sunlight
whenever the temperatures are conducive, even if it's only for a couple of hours
each day.

Plants should be in the garden by the time they are 10-12" tall (usually 8 weeks
maximum), unless they have been transplanted into gallon containers. And when
they get that tall the stem needs to be supported with a small stake carefully
placed into the soil and tied to the stem.

Jim Kennard

Growing Roma tomatoes

I am trying this (tomato) for the first time and I notice that it looks more like a very thick bush, does anyone know if this is something I should thin out or do I just leave it alone?

roydcole & Group:

Prune Romas just enough to keep leaves off the ground and allow light into the center of the plant,

Indeterminate plants can and should be grown vertically by taking off the sucker stems.

Determinate plants - such as the Romas - will not grow tall, so the only sucker removal is to open up the plant somewhat, and pruning leaves is to keep them off the ground.

And by the way, we recommend you plant indeterminates - anything you're growing vertically - in one row only, on one side of the bed near the ridge. This makes feeding, watering, weeding, and even harvesting easier.

Jim Kennard

Pruning determinate vs indeterminate tomatoes

Thanks for the replies.? I think it was most clear when Jim said "just make sure you have ONE stem growing upward, and remove everything else."? I must confess that this is what I was thinking everyone meant, but couldn't imagine it was really true!? I guess I'll have to go take it on faith and wait and see where the tomatoes actually from from then.

Also, about determinate vs indeterminate. ? Do I understand correctly that this has to do with vining vs non-vining?? So if I can figure out if my tomato plants are determinate or not, will that dictate whether I should even prune at all?? Could someone please clarify this for me as well?

Thanks again. Rick

Rick & Group:

It really is hard for people to believe a single-stem plant can be very productive, but remember you plant every 9", so you get quite a few plants in a small space as well. And that single stem will produce a "hand" of 4-7 tomatoes every 6-8" up the stalk, until frost kills the plant (different varieties have different growth habits, so don't panic if yours doesn't follow the pattern I've described).

Determinate plants will not grow tall, but remain low. The only pruning you should do is to remove old leaves and those touching the ground, and to prevent the plants from crowding their neighbors. You do NOT remove the sucker stems, as that is where the fruit is produced.

Your nursery can tell you if the plants you have are determinate or indeterminate. Or if you know the variety you can look online. Determinate varieties produce over a shorter period of time, so don't expect to be eating tomatoes for 6 months with "patio" tomatoes.

Jim Kennard

Tomato Blossom drop - How to Sustain Production Through the Summer

Tomato Blossom drop - How to Sustain
Production Through the Summer

This is mys first year using the Mittleider method. Living in west
Georgia our summer heat can be rather stout and is often over 90
sustained for most of the summer. In past veg gardens I have
experienced blossom drop on tomatoes and production has fallen off
during hot summer months. Thus we get a nice slug of tomatoes early
and nothing in late summer as the tomatoes disappear.

My research on this has pointed to heat and high nitrogen application
as significant contributing factors to the loss of blossom and
declining production. One general rule of thumb in these
parts is that if you want tomatoes throughout the late summer here,
only use patio or cherry tomatoes. (I am not a fan of those varieties
as they won't hold still and shoot across the room when I try to cut
them in a salad)

Does the Mittlieder method offer any variations to managing the
tomato crop to offset these issue? The weekly application with the
method includes a good bit of N worries me a bit in sustaining
production.

I'd like to sustain production of my better boy and big boy tomatoes
if possible into the late summer and fall.
Thanks

Joe



The Mittleider Method offers you hope of better success. The application of
Weekly Feed every 7 days does not give your plants too much nitrogen. Of
greater concern is applying too much of ANY one compound. The nitrogen in
our pre-packaged mix is only 13%, and it is properly balanced with all of
the other nutrients.

In hot weather it becomes VERY important to maintain moisture in your soil,
and in your plants. The plant needs much moisture because up to 95% of the
water it receives is lost through transpiration in order to try stay cool
(think human sweating). Therefore, consider watering twice a day during hot
dry weather.

Nutrients deficiencies can cause blossom drop also, but extremely high
temperatures, and failure of temps to cool down at night can do it, as
you've experienced.

If you see any evidence of lack of calcium, such as blossom-end rot, I would
give your plants a second shot of Pre-Plant mix.

Also, consider putting shade cloth of 25-35% over your plants - just wide
enough to cover them during the hottest hours from 11 A.M. to 2 or 3 P.M.

Jim Kennard

Using material between your soil beds yes of no?

Jim and/or group,

1. Would it be advisable to lay something between the grow boxes/beds
to help keep weeds down? I have some rubber like black material (roofing) that I could use. Would that provide a breeding place for bugs, etc and not
a good idea?

2. Has anyone use 8 ounce "coffee" (throw away) cups for the transition
stage of seedlings form sprout tray to larger container?

Nelson

Nelson & Group:

We don't recommend using anything except E. & O. (early and often) Weeding.

The coffee cups should be okay, unless they have coffee grounds in them.

Jim Kennard

Nitrogen fertilizers

Hey Jim and group, my name is Bill. This is my first post in this
group. I am from the Saint Louis, Missouri area, and mainly doing
gardening by small containers. I live in a subdivision of Villas with
limited space. I have a question about the nitrogen compounds in
fertilizers. What is the difference between Ammonium Nitrate and Urea
Fertilizer? I know urea is 46% nitrogen, but will it work in place of
ammonium nitrate in the weekly-feed formula?

Home fertilizer mix how to make it

Hi all
I live I St.Maarten and I would like to start my garden. I am able
to get the following fertilizers in 4 lb bags. I would like to know
how to mix these to get the right proportion for the fertilizer mix
that was created by Mr. Mitleider.

Ammonium Sulphate- 21-0-0
Nitrate of Soda- 16-0-0
Thriple Super Phosphate- 0-45-0
Muriate of Potash- 0-0-60
Mule Team Borax
Magnesium Sulphate
I know that I would have to buy the Minors Mix to add to this. If
these are recommended can you please tell me the weight and if I
have to add anything else. For the preplant mix can I use crushed
gypsum board that goes by the trade name 'sheet rock'? I am
following the guide on the website.

Larry

Larry & Group:

Buy and mix the following:
21-0-0 - 52.4#
0-45-0 - 13.3#
0-0-60 - 18.3#
Epsom S- 10#
Borax - 10 Ounces.

Feeding your plants thru the pvc pipes

I am a disabled veteran and hope to be able to produce enough crops to
get off of disability. Unfortunately my check barely covers food and
living expenses so I've not purchased the books. Sorry. I've been
gleaning as much as I can through this group but here's a question I
haven't found an answer to. How can I accurately, or can I accurately
feed the nutrients through the pvc pipes? I have several acres and
hope to create a pick your own farm. That would help me with labor
issues.

p.s. can you tell me where to purchase the Boron and other stuff at
the cheapest price? Once things get going money won't be such a problem.

Bob & Group:

Automating your watering will be very nice, will save water, and make watering much easier and faster.

However, if you think the books are expensive you may need to think twice before you plan on automating the watering for several acres of gardens. That will likely cost a few thousand dollars.

Figure this out: 1 acre = 250 soil-beds 30'-long. That one acre will require 7500' of Schedule 200 PVC pipe, plus fittings and ball valves.

You'll need to drill 67,500 holes for those 250 pipes also, unless you pay someone else to do it. Bud don't despair, they go quickly.

You'll also need 2" main-line piping across the head of your garden, and 1 1/2" pipe in front of each row. Plus you'll need threaded step-down "T's" at each row with threaded risers and threaded elbows.

Where we live that will add up costing some serious money. By the way, I've done this for my Zoo Garden in Salt Lake City, Utah, and it has SURELY been worth it!

To answer your question about the nutrients: Yes you can, if you have a way of introducing the fertilizer concentrate into the pipes. Of course that will also cost some $.

But don't let me discourage you - go for it! You can even find the chapter on automating your watering system - from The Mittleider Gardening Course - in the Store section of the website at www.growfood. com. It's free.

Jim Kennard

When to add preplant mix

Jim,

I cannot remember whether we are supposed to use preplant mix in the
vegetable garden boxes each Spring before we plant new vegetable
seedlings. Thanks ahead for your response.

Helen

Helen & Group:

Pre-Plant Mix is to be added to both containers (Grow-Boxes) and
soil-beds before each crop is planted. In fact, if you plant two or three
crops in the same beds in the same year, you need to apply Pre-Plant each
time.

Jim Kennard

Correct adjustments to fertilizers other then 20-20-20

Jim,
I have 4 questions:

1. I'm still in El Paso... I can't locate the 16-16-16, 16-8-16
blend. I've only been able to find 13-13-13. I mixed the weekly feed
but I'm not sure if I need to add anything else to bring the numbers up.

2. I mixed the pre-plant but if I remember correctly, when I purchased
this pre-mixed from you, was it blended with fertilizer as well?
Because after adding the 3 ingredients (boron, epson salt and gypsum)
together, it was pretty much a power. Need some help here...

3. I transplanted some romaine lettuce that I purchaced from the store
into my 5 gal (prepared) buckets I use for my garden. I also
fertilized with the weekly feed only the plants are turning brown and
dying. It's not hot here yet and I had no problem last year with the
lettuce. However, I was using a 16-16-16 fertilizer.

4. Started tomatoes from seed. They just started coming up but the
initial leaves breaking the surface are turning yellow almost
immediately. This has never happened before.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,


Group:
1. You can use 13-13-13 with the Micro-Mix the way it is and it's not bad. You might need to give your plants an extra feeding during the growing season.

2. The pre-mixed fertilizer we sell through the stores in Utah, Idaho and wyoming contains some NPK as well. If you want to mix a batch, just mix together the following:

10# - 34-0-0 or 16# 21-0-0, 25# - 0-45-0, 25# - 0-0-60, 1# Epsom Salt, 1/5# Solubor (boron), and 115# gypsum.

3. The problem with your lettuce might have to do with drainage, the amount of fertilizer you're using, or even a disease or something else. I'm sorry I can't tell you better. The difference between 16-16-16 and 13-13-13 should NOT be the source of your problem, if you're using the same amounts.

4. How's the drainage in your seedling flats? Do your flats have good direct sunlight? What is the amount of Weekly Feed that you're using in your Constant Feed solution? It should be only 1 ounce in 3 gallons of water.

Jim Kennard
__._,_.___

Pruning tomaotes correctly

Jim - I watched this video about pruning the tomato plant. Is this what the plant will eventually look like when done by the Mittleider Method? There are very few leaves on this plant when he finished.



Sheila (Virginia)

Sheila & Group:

Do NOT prune tomatoes - or any other plant like what is shown in this video!

Plants need their leaves for photosynthesis. Therefore, unless you are expert at pruning, restrict your pruning to removing sucker stems, removing leaves that touch the ground or are crowding other plants, and old leaves that are no longer useful.

Make sure to remove all sucker stems - all season long, otherwise you'll have a mass of branches and little fruit.

General Mittleider gardening questions

Over the past couple of weeks I have signed on to this group and
obtained an enormous amount of help and information. I have also
read one of Dr. Mittleider's early books. What I have found is that
I read something in a post or article and then forget where I read
it. I am planning to garden using the 18" beds (not grow boxes) for
my garden. Here is what I have gathered in summary. Please check
and see if I am correct.

1. Grow beds in the garden should be 18" wide and 30' long. Aisles
should be 3 1/2' and ends 5'. (Any length is ok - just remember to feed Pre-Plant 1 ounce per running foot and Weekly Feed 1/2 ounce per running foot).

2. They should be 12" in the middle with 3" ridges on each side. (The actual planting area will be between 10" and 12", and the ridges take up about 3" horizontally on each side, but they need to be 4" + high).

3. I can plant two rows of small crops in each 18" row if I plant at the base of the ridges.

4. I need to only plant 1 row of vining plants such as tomatoes,
beans, melons, squash, etc. offset to one side.

5. Watering is done with the PVC method, three holes, one in the
middle other two at 45 degree offsets. (Watering can be done with a hose also. Just tie a large towel over the end of the hose - with the end open. This cuts the pressure but allows the full flow o9f water.)

(If using the automated watering system you need the three holes described - each one drilled with a #57 drill bit (much smaller than a 1/16th" bit) - every 4" along the entire length of the bed or box.)

6. The T-frames are made of 8' posts set into the ground 15" with
32" tops. The should be set no more than 10' apart.

7. QUESTION: How many strands of #8 wire do you recommend at the top? (Two strands of wire are used - one on each side, near the edge of the T.)

8. QUESTION: How do I get my vines to the wire strands on the T-
frame? If I was using the grow boxes I see that I could attach a
string or wire to the box and the other end to the wire. However,
since I am using the beds, I don't have anything to attach to. (You use baling twine. First, run tie-wire along the base of the T-Frame, nailed to the T-Frames at ground level the full length of the bed. Tie the twine to the wire or pipe, etc. at the top, then drop it down and tie it to the wire at the bottom. Run strings from both sides of the T-Frames town to the same wire. Then guide the plants up the strings, alternating between the near and far sides of the T-Frame)

9. I am doing a "trial run" this fall. I will be starting with
three rows. I am in central Alabama. (where, exactly? I have a part-time home in Birmingham, and would love to meet you if we can work it out.)

10. QUESTION: If I cover each bed with the plastic greenhouse
mentioned will that significanlty increase my growing season (in
Alabama) and ultimatley the produce I gain? (So long as you can avoid frost getting to your plants, you can keep them growing, and thus producing. you must remember to keep feeding them until 8 weeks before you expect to stop production.)

Oh nooo My tomatoes are splitting HELP

I really need help figuring out why my tomatoes are splitting. We're having 100 degree weather right now and we are watering twice a week but our tomatoes are all splitting. Any advice?

Splitting of tomatoes is caused by uneven water availability to the fruit as it ripens, and is greatly exacerbated in very hot weather.We ALWAYS advocate watering EVERY DAY - ESPECIALLY in hot weather! In 100 degree temperatures you should be consideering the need to water TWICE a day.Remember folks, if you are growing in level, ridged beds, it doesn't take much water - only an inch in the narrow 10"-wide growing area.You should also consider giving your tomato plants a little shade in the hottest part of the day. When that sun comes down so strongly on the exposed fruit the temperature changes don't help at all.A 30-50% shade cloth over the plants can give some relief. It may also help your plants continue to set fruit, which is another problem they often experience during the worst of the hot days.

Staking and pruning tomatoes correctly

My tomatoes are staked and doing great. I have a question concerning tying up the tomato stems - do I do just the main stem or all of the big stems?I tied up all the big stems to get them off the ground using "staking tape".

I hope most of you did a bit more reading before your tomatoes got to the pruning stage (9-12" tall).There should only be "the main stem". All sucker stems are to be removed as soon as they start to grow. This assures you a very large harvest from every plant - which are planted only about 9" apart - and grown up a baling twine string or tied to tall stakes.Leaving many stems on a tomato plant produces an unweildy mass of leaves and branches, and MUCH less mature fruit.Jim Kennard